1
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,948
It turns upside down...

2
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,631
Bruce LaBruce, is that your real name?

3
00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:35,911
It's my real French name, yes.

4
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,399
He grew up on a farm
from Bruce County, Ontario.

5
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,188
He spent his childhood there,
to milk cows.

6
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,516
So he is Bruce, from Bruce County.

7
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,794
Bruce LaBruce. It's rooted in reality.

8
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,751
I always liked that about the name.

9
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,039
This refers to "Scorpio Rising", right?

10
00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,837
The actor from "Scorpio Rising", I think?

11
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,428
Byron Bruce or Bruce Byron?

12
00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,919
The pseudonym "Bruce LaBruce" comes from

13
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,469
of a Vancouver gay arsonist
from the 1930s.

14
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,239
When we hear this name,
we say to ourselves: “This guy is gay.”

15
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,199
I feel like I heard that name
in the 50s or 60s, you know?

16
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,836
"Mr. LaBruce, the stylist."

17
00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:16,918
I know it's GB Jones
who gave his name to Bruce LaBruce.

18
00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:19,916
She was the one who found it.

19
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,797
A lot of gay people are named Bruce.

20
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,399
Bruce LaBruce is a feminized version,

21
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,029
as if to emphasize queer or gay identity.

22
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,439
Well, I never asked myself that question.

23
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,396
I have friends called
Divine or Mink Stole,

24
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,479
so if someone tells me
that his name is Bruce LaBruce,

25
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,599
I don't ask myself the question, I accept it.

26
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,957
I probably thought that was his real name,
that his parents were Mr. and Mrs. LaBruce.

27
00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,073
I invented Bruce LaBruce
for my films and my fanzines

28
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:55,755
like a more intense alter ego,
crazier, wilder

29
00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,598
and more eager
to become famous or infamous.

30
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,194
Jürgen Anger? A connection with Kenneth?

31
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,755
Nah.

32
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,079
Can I smoke?

33
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:10,035
Negative.

34
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,439
First visit to Hollywood?

35
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,231
Could you please be quiet?

36
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,677
Let's pretend we're
in a limousine

37
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,713
and that a window separated us. Heard?

38
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,958
Sorry, I was just trying to...
Too much information.

39
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:35,635
Naturally, I am rather introverted
and not at all exhibitionist.

40
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,358
I am rather calm and cerebral,

41
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,678
but at some point,
the puppet took control.

42
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,639
We had a mutual friend, Adam Bloch,
he's a writer from San Francisco.

43
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,559
I think he gave Bruce the film,
“No Skin Off My Ass”, by Kurt Cobain.

44
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,680
He was the link, the one who made
Kurt later said

45
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,952
that Bruce was his favorite director.

46
00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,395
It was as such that I met him,

47
00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:20,712
as Kurt's favorite director.

48
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,758
I also knew him through J.D.s,

49
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,633
the queer punk magazine
that they had created in Toronto.

50
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:39,712
When I went there to shoot “Prête à Tout”,
Adam introduced us.

51
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,276
I thought this culture existed,
the one described in JD's.

52
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,799
When he came to my hotel, I told him:

53
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:53,999
“Come on, let’s go out, I want to see
this queer punk culture."

54
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,593
Bruce told me it didn't exist,
that they had invented everything.

55
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,192
It was 1982, 1983.

56
00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,478
It was just an idea.

57
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,349
I don't know much
on the Homocore movement.

58
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,233
I know that it brings together
many homosexuals,

59
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,710
radical homosexuals,

60
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,356
homosexuals who call themselves hardcore

61
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,514
and a lot of angry gays

62
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,432
and I know some people even like
carry knives.

63
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,480
Bruce LaBruce and GB Jones more or less
launched the movement in Toronto.

64
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:43,675
This movement was not organized at all.

65
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,830
It was between them and their friends.

66
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,152
When musicians
landed in town, they got them drunk,

67
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,159
then made them undress to take them
in photo. And they launched the zine.

68
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,630
They inspired a lot of people around the world

69
00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,759
who ended up forming
the Homocore movement,

70
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,670
which brought together fanzines,
musicians and films.

71
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,713
This period, at the end
1980s, early 1990s,

72
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,799
thanks to Bruce and GB Jones,
was very prolific in terms of gay culture

73
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,509
and gay art that went against
of traditional gay culture.

74
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,919
Welcome to the literary section
of XXX Gays in Closet Talk.

75
00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:27,955
With us, the author of a new gay XXX book:

76
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,236
“User” by Bruce Benderson. Hello, Bruce!

77
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,109
Hi, how are you? I am very happy
to be here with you.

78
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,599
You become a little more masculine,
which delights me.

79
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,951
Gays are very divided on the subject,

80
00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,878
between those who want
to be called "homosexuals"

81
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,871
and those who want
call them “queer”.

82
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,479
And on the question of what is queer.

83
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,873
Some aspects of gay culture
are also conservative

84
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,509
than in any other culture.

85
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,599
You know, being XXX gay
opens up horizons for you.

86
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,068
You can sleep with
straight men, women,

87
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,836
children, animals,
plants, minerals, everything!

88
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,639
Except with lesbians.

89
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,433
It goes without saying.

90
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,239
The Homocore movement calls into question
all this conservatism,

91
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,798
who always wants to categorize everything.

92
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,788
We didn't belong
in the traditional gay universe

93
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,596
no more than we had

94
00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:29,752
in the punk world

95
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,356
because, in the 80s,
Punk was full of testosterone.

96
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:40,349
The original punk scene of
Los Angeles, New York and London

97
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,075
was pro-women
or dominated by women.

98
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,799
It was even dominated by Queers.

99
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,873
Some think that
Bruce LaBruce invented Queercore or Homocore,

100
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,719
who wanted to mix pop culture,

101
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,759
furiously homophobic,
with gay culture.

102
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,879
It was an ironic attempt

103
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,678
to create a collision
between these two universes.

104
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,911
But I believe the real reason was that

105
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:12,836
Bruce was very sexually attracted
by punk boys.

106
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,679
I don't know how much this attraction

107
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,558
was linked to the fact that the Punks
wanted to make fun of gays,

108
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,716
I won't pass any judgment on that.

109
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,390
This is car 12. We are having an altercation
at the corner of Wellington and Portland.

110
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,831
It looks like a domestic dispute.

111
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,038
They look like a couple of fags...
of homosexuals... uh...

112
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,589
We are controlling the situation. To you.

113
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,070
Gays always have
part of the punk scene

114
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,990
but it is only with the arrival
of the queer zine movement

115
00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,678
that the majority of Queers in the punk scene
began to recognize each other.

116
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,554
Bruce LaBruce was involved
in this magazine, J.D.

117
00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,949
for Juvenile Delinquent, James Dean,

118
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,711
Joy Division, and other references.

119
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,757
But it was just called J.D.

120
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,359
I never had the chance to read it.

121
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,510
I did have a neighbor

122
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,396
who collected them,
but he was very stingy,

123
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:16,797
so he never shared them with me.

124
00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,639
I believe that the idea of the Homocore movement
took up what Freud called the concept

125
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,111
of polymorphous perversity: the pleasures
sex or whatever you want.

126
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,272
There was a band called Pansy Division

127
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,879
and the refrain of one
of their pieces says:

128
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,838
“There is this thing that carries
a leather jacket and I want to take it home."

129
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:41,911
the idea is that it makes no difference
whether you fuck a man or a woman.

130
00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:44,716
Two men, two women, it doesn't matter.

131
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,836
Saying "I am this or that",
it’s about being labeled and controlled.

132
00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:58,433
And celebrating your own desires is
open yourself up to a whole host of possibilities.

133
00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:11,439
In “Hustler White“, you have
the whole range of possibilities.

134
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,798
All the characters have relationships
with people of the same sex

135
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,591
but one of them suffocates his partners,
another kisses them with his stump,

136
00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:24,559
yet another gets caught
by twenty burly guys,

137
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,279
while the main character
just wants a romance

138
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,589
where we watch the sunsets
sun on the beach.

139
00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,674
And all this is possible,
we don't have to be only this or that.

140
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:40,273
Are you okay in there?

141
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,470
Hustler White is slang.

142
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,428
Many male prostitutes ("hustler")
wore white jeans

143
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,952
to attract light
car headlights.

144
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,278
White reflects light well
and highlights the package well.

145
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,592
So they wore
their “white hustler jeans”.

146
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,275
Why the hustlers
do they like to wear white?

147
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:14,960
Purity.

148
00:10:14,961 --> 00:10:19,158
I always loved the reactions to this film.

149
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,313
When it premiered at Sundance,

150
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,753
in January 1996,

151
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,879
from the first controversial scene,

152
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,831
two rows of spectators
left the room.

153
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,037
I would even say, they ran away.

154
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,871
On the next one, we lost
two or three more rows.

155
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,199
During the sex scene with the stump,
we lost more than half of the room.

156
00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:52,912
It was always fun to see
who was the last one to remain seated.

157
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,674
Very kinky things turn me on.

158
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:20,909
It's disgusting!

159
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,838
Okay, we're going to speed up because we have
only 16 minutes left on the K7.

160
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,917
Advance! It's disgusting!

161
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,437
- No, no, he scares me!
- Oh, it's real blood.

162
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,156
Tony Ward, the main character
from "Hustler White"...

163
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,275
Here we are.

164
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,675
At this point in his career,
he was known as Madonna's boyfriend.

165
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:45,399
He was doing all these fashion photos

166
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,076
and other advertising campaigns.

167
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,199
He accepted this role while
those around him were very worried.

168
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,879
They advised him to refuse,

169
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,031
and he therefore lost
lots of contracts.

170
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,999
Jürgen perceives this brief exchange of glances
as an encouraging sign.

171
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:06,551
Destiny. Love at first sight.

172
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:11,599
The boy's fixed, frozen gaze

173
00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:13,799
ignores the one, at bay, of a customer

174
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,839
among the thousand potential customers of the day.

175
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,916
You have there someone that we saw

176
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,276
like the new trendy darling

177
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,474
and who made the choice to...

178
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,519
I wouldn't say to self-destruct,

179
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,273
because it's too simplistic
and really exaggerated,

180
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,675
but he gave an arm of honor
to everyone

181
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:41,629
because he had other interests,
other avenues to explore,

182
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,955
and this film captures

183
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,115
that moment when he refuses

184
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:53,279
to be just a product
to become something else.

185
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,194
Maybe in the heart

186
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,797
Bruce films

187
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,429
there is this need

188
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,830
to provoke the spectators.

189
00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,829
To show them something that represents

190
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,151
a challenge for them and which puts them
sometimes angry.

191
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,795
I don't know if it was
really his intention at the start.

192
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,719
There is a certain Nazi fetish
which can easily offend people.

193
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,077
“You’re a skinhead, right?”, I said.

194
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,399
I saw it immediately.

195
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,310
I know a lot about skins

196
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,639
figure it out.

197
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,712
It's like a hobby.

198
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,795
Almost an obsession.

199
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,513
If I'm not mistaken, LaBruce's first film
that I saw is "No Skin Off My Ass".

200
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,115
The way he emphasized

201
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,511
the homoerotic aspect of
I really liked punk culture.

202
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,388
He knew how to explore this universe

203
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,349
and show it without
make it his business.

204
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,479
The border is very thin
and Bruce has the extraordinary gift

205
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,029
to immerse yourself in these subcultures

206
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,398
and put them forward without
transformed into commercial products.

207
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,269
Hello, Candy, it's Bruce, are you there?

208
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,195
I called my friends in Hollywood
and I'm afraid it's true.

209
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,516
He would have left the box,

210
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,034
allegedly passed out and was found dead.

211
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,991
He had felt defeated for a long time,

212
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,596
he was disappointed by the Hollywood system.

213
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,594
I have no other details.

214
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,029
But, it's true, River is gone...

215
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,113
I think River Phoenix is the new...

216
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,831
the new Judy Garland.

217
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:56,040
Really?

218
00:15:56,041 --> 00:16:00,909
He's a gay icon, surrounded
tragic circumstances.

219
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,310
He likes what he shoots
in derision, and me too.

220
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,439
And I think you can feel it.

221
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,352
I don't believe Bruce's films
are ill-intentioned.

222
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:13,316
They are shocking, funny and
very sexy, but never mean.

223
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,637
I am always struck by
the quality of his writing

224
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,274
and its political ideologies,

225
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:30,316
but also by the appearance
intentionally crude of his films.

226
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,469
Bruce satirizes contemporary life
as he breathes.

227
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,395
It doesn't matter if he's making a movie,

228
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,598
for him to have a conversation
or take photos,

229
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,831
he always has the same speech,

230
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,835
which has developed further over time,

231
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,680
but everything is consistent,
like pieces of a puzzle.

232
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,358
And all this creates
an outrageous sensitivity.

233
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,354
I think he makes arthouse, erotic films,

234
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,550
who celebrate the rejects of society

235
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,153
that he observes from the inside,

236
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,957
by being sexually, emotionally

237
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,271
and intellectually
excited about their problems.

238
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,997
Bruce's films
similar in every way.

239
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,751
We see a lot of penises there,

240
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,759
they are a bit dirty and very political.

241
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,548
He really invented his own language.

242
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,589
He is an author and always has been,
even when he was starring in his own films.

243
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,272
We could tell right away
that it was a Bruce LaBruce film,

244
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:41,998
his work was identifiable.

245
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,432
And like all great authors,
it takes you into a world

246
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,351
which may not make you comfortable

247
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:53,272
but he is so much so that, precisely,
it guides you and reassures you.

248
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,670
I believe that even straight people
can enjoy Bruce's films,

249
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,828
even those where there is
gay pornography, because they are…

250
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,436
You know, cumming to “Mein Kampf“
is somewhat different

251
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,358
from what we see in usual porn.

252
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,679
It was great.

253
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,638
Will we see each other again?

254
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,352
I believe it is
an unusual form of comedy.

255
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,716
It's always politically engaged,

256
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,114
and these are important films
that make you laugh.

257
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,679
Excuse me, can I
disturb you for a moment?

258
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,279
Of course.
THANKS.

259
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,791
Your work fascinates me.

260
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,677
In particular, your recent period
arthouse films

261
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,757
where your productions come together
ironically by Warhol

262
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,639
while leading to these moments

263
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,598
purely Brechtian, typical of Godard.

264
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,275
By the way, you know how to suck a cock.

265
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,995
My interest in cinema
goes back to my childhood,

266
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,319
when my parents took me to the drive-in.

267
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,952
They were farmers, but
also big movie buffs.

268
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,599
And I was also addicted to TV,
I watched movies late at night.

269
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,115
This is how
I educated myself with cinema.

270
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,999
Well, it's a long story.

271
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,718
I went to film school,

272
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,039
but I didn't have enough money
to shoot my films,

273
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,316
so I turned towards
an academic career

274
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,675
with the intention of becoming a journalist.

275
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,076
Why am I
also existentialist?

276
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,753
Everyone tells me,
except my old producer.

277
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,189
He calls me a bourgeois existentialist.

278
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,038
That's why I fell for Pierce.

279
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,316
An hour after our meeting,
he said he loved me, and I said:

280
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,595
"We've known each other for five minutes,
you couldn't be more existentialist..."

281
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,590
I must confess to you
that I stole this line.

282
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,789
Besides, I steal all my lines.
There is no copyright on a good replica.

283
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,755
When I made pornos,
I stole the titles,

284
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,149
bits of dialogue,
whole stories.

285
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,352
Everything was from other films.

286
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:45,191
As a student, I would never have
imagined shooting feature films,

287
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,597
because: a) I had no ideas,

288
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:56,193
and that b) it seemed too hard to me,
technically, and also too expensive.

289
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,239
It's Bruce's style
to have references

290
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,719
and, when we work together
on a film or play,

291
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,159
there is always a reference to this or that.

292
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,549
We watch a film, we talk about it,

293
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,838
but it is a reference that he brings elsewhere.

294
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,110
I take music appreciation lessons,

295
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,876
I try to listen to it
for an hour every day.

296
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,719
“No Skin Off My Ass” is a perfect example
for “That Cold Day in the Park.”

297
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,953
It's a film he loves
and who obsesses him

298
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,519
but he translates it into his own language.
I always admired that about him.

299
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,158
Are you trying to look like Andy Warhol?

300
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,279
Bruce's influences?
There is Warhol, Hollywood,

301
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,953
but there is another
very important

302
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,918
which dates from university,

303
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:12,438
it is deconstruction, semiotics,
Lacan, Foucault, Derrida...

304
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,509
He fed on all that at university,

305
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,633
what influenced his vision
and his interpretation of the world.

306
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,519
I would like to dissuade him,

307
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,193
but it is well anchored.

308
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,191
His films for me are a mix
of Altman and John Waters, but gay,

309
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,709
but gayer than John Waters.

310
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,550
I always thought it would be
a nice double program

311
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,471
if there was a drive-in for perverts,

312
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,199
or a triple program,
or even a nocturnal one.

313
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,158
All our films presented together
would make a nice poster.

314
00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,158
This is what I say every day...
When does it end?

315
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,629
He has so far
fake blood. We can't take it anymore.

316
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:00,832
It's a nightmare.

317
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,755
We describe the progression, but in reverse,

318
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,715
of a zombie coming back to life,

319
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:14,397
then there are other characters
who gravitate around

320
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,756
and who die in the film.

321
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,155
The zombie finds their body and
revives them by making love to them.

322
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,199
It is therefore a film which celebrates life.

323
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,073
There is Eddie Diaz, a Cuban.

324
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,631
I think he's going to get shot,
then I bring him back to life by fucking him.

325
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,758
But that has changed because before,
I fucked him like a zombie,

326
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,675
and now, as a homeless person.

327
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,916
I don't know
if it's real coitus

328
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,192
or if it's the homeless person's dream. No idea.

329
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,392
It's rather vague.

330
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,836
I took a look at the schedule
but not everything is specified.

331
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,351
There is no synopsis.
So I move forward blindly.

332
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,031
I just knew that Santino
and Tony were going to play homeless people

333
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,468
but I don't know any more.
We improvise quite a bit.

334
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,108
I don't always work this way.

335
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,398
I purposely left
things in the dark this time.

336
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,391
I started with a basic concept.

337
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,509
The screenplay is only five pages
and contains no dialogue...

338
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,632
I wanted to do something
very Visual.

339
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,912
There are times when

340
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,834
the concept seems so drawn
by the hair and weird

341
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,668
that I myself have difficulty understanding it.

342
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,391
And other times, it seems logical.

343
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,793
He lets you do it
almost what you want.

344
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,311
If you decide to do
things a little differently,

345
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,594
he agrees,

346
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,676
if it looks good in the image,

347
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,838
but he always directs me first.

348
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,076
But the little changes
are not a problem.

349
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,958
In a way, the film
follows the rules of a porno,

350
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,835
this is how a porn
usually works.

351
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,515
It's like a convention.

352
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,834
The film is basically about couples

353
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,268
who make love at regular intervals.

354
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,589
At the end there is a group scene.

355
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,670
But there are three of the biggest names
porn in this final scene:

356
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,471
Matthew Rush, Erik Rhodes
and Francesco DiMacho.

357
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,479
François got me pregnant!

358
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,595
He said, “Mom!”

359
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:46,595
"Mom!"

360
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,040
- I didn't hear anything.
- Do you always say: “Sorry?”

361
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,353
- Yes.
- And I say: “What?”

362
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:10,869
It's more polite.

363
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,234
- Didn't I teach you politeness?
- Yes, but I forgot.

364
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,678
The first film of his that I saw
was probably "Super 8112".

365
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,949
I took this young woman

366
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,077
that I wanted to lure into my bed.

367
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,834
I had never seen
of Bruce LaBruce film before,

368
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,309
but I had heard so many good things about it.

369
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,032
This woman was a teacher,
Christian scientist,

370
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,198
and she had adopted several children.

371
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,432
I didn't know what Bruce's films were

372
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,430
caused in people
nor how explicit they were.

373
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,798
Let's say that this woman
never spoke to me again.

374
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,959
Maybe it's a coincidence but,
ten years later,

375
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,076
I was told that she had set herself on fire.

376
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,158
You can't please everyone.

377
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,076
I made a short film called
"Give Piece of Ass a Chance"

378
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,917
in which there is a long scene
uninterrupted lesbian cunnilingus.

379
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,790
When the film played
a gay audience in San Francisco,

380
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,279
many of the men present,
who expected to see something gay,

381
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,195
were dismayed, and left
the room booing in disgust.

382
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,237
I don't think any of us
intends to shock people.

383
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,756
We try to make them smile,
to make them laugh, even.

384
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,119
To write an article about me for
a magazine, he came to my house.

385
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:39,633
When I discovered the photos in the article,

386
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,319
I saw that he had photographed
a turd in my toilet.

387
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,993
His excrement in my house,
I found it very funny.

388
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,668
It surprised me.

389
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,950
Bruce LaBruce is a great provocateur.

390
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,439
In fact, I should say that
LaBruce is undoubtedly

391
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,910
the greatest provocateur
that Canada has ever produced.

392
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,830
It is undoubtedly even the best
thing that Canada has produced.

393
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,711
He loves to compete against all these idiots,
all these people who spit on him,

394
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,349
who want to imprison him,
denigrate him, belittle him.

395
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,555
Bruce laughs at all this.

396
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:13,191
Pigeon wants to be Crazy Paw

397
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,155
Shaved head goes up, and here I am unemployed.

398
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,237
Meanwhile, another shaved head
is coming, but this one is hot!

399
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,111
He attacks the conservatism of spectators.

400
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,870
The competition gone, I say to him:
Hot skin, hot!

401
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,999
And this conservatism extends
to many people,

402
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,390
not just for straight people
but also to gays.

403
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,479
And he attacks that. Joyfully.

404
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:42,994
Hey! What's your name?

405
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,990
Pig, he said.
So I start singing:

406
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,953
The wonderful thing about Cochonet,
“Cochonet is wonderful!”

407
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,711
He celebrates his sexuality,
perverse sexuality.

408
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,630
Today, no sexuality is normal.

409
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,516
Everything is perverted by culture
and our education,

410
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,877
what our parents do to us...

411
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,955
It doesn't even make sense to standardize
any form of sexuality whatsoever.

412
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,590
Sex is a very mysterious thing.
Do you see what I mean?

413
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,471
For me, being queer is…

414
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,478
We cannot lock up
people in categories.

415
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,392
I can't really explain it,

416
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,469
I don't know
to which category I belong.

417
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,677
If I say I'm straight,
this is not true.

418
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,712
Obviously I prefer straight sex

419
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,393
but being a straight woman
is also a political statement

420
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,354
or a choice of a lifestyle
which doesn't suit me.

421
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,518
I can't define myself
neither as a lesbian.

422
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,352
There's a great scene in "Hustler White"

423
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,590
where a guy gets caught
by twenty other guys.

424
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,715
Good morning.

425
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,594
It’s a very aggressive and predatory scene.

426
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,639
The scene drags on and we feel good
the embarrassment of spectators,

427
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,596
whether they are gay or straight.

428
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,680
- Shit!
- It's not mine...

429
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,636
Is this my pager? Whose pager is it?

430
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,356
It's mine. Do you have a phone?

431
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,679
It goes against what we expect
of a sex scene,

432
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,953
of what we expect
of a gay sex scene,

433
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,551
it goes against representation
homosexuality,

434
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,439
against the expectations of the spectators

435
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,034
before what appears
like a violent scene without being violent.

436
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,829
The scene represents desire and sexuality

437
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,510
like very complex things,
far from simple.

438
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,356
I think that's what's so good
in his work

439
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,955
and who annoys people.

440
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,237
After Jane Friday was killed
accidentally during a shootout,

441
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,519
his sister Wednesday continued
to star in the Googie films.

442
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,789
I met Wednesday
on one of his shoots

443
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,919
and she told me about her collaboration
with Richard Kern,

444
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,470
the sulphurous New York underground director.

445
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,994
He felt in the lesbian world
like a fish in water.

446
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,039
I guess he was trying
to be forgiven for his films

447
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,634
from the 1980s for which
he was accused of objectifying women.

448
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,318
However, I always
found his films rather sexy.

449
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,875
I believe it challenges
the spectators,

450
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,198
because the only films where we see
gay sex or even a simple kiss,

451
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,951
these are films like his
or gay porn.

452
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,479
Even if "Brokeback Mountain"
was a big success

453
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,758
and we didn't see much there,
the audience was rather uncomfortable.

454
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,071
And Bruce goes way beyond that.

455
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,319
His films are always fitting,
always funny, always a little porno,

456
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,790
what was homosexually incorrect
at a time when you had to stay serious.

457
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,192
It showed skins, Nazis

458
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,193
and other things that we would not associate
never in “mainstream” gay cinema.

459
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:31,753
His view of the world is, ultimately,
more inclusive than exclusive.

460
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,390
- We think about “going into the closet”.
- Yes, we're trying to go back.

461
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,358
It's all about the closet.

462
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,993
- Are you serious?
- Yes, no sarcasm.

463
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,070
This inclusion translates
Talk about breaking everything down first.

464
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,630
And that's the reason why
I believe that traditional gay culture

465
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:59,154
does not necessarily appreciate or understand
what he's trying to do.

466
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,193
We have doubts about what
accomplished the gay community.

467
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,431
We're anti-gay, actually.

468
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,035
Really?

469
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,958
What does that mean?

470
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,999
I believe that homosexuality should be
an invisible influence in culture.

471
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,833
She shouldn't be
stigmatized or paraded.

472
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,435
I imagine that the younger generation
will adhere completely.

473
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,958
I experienced something similar

474
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,235
with my photos and my work.

475
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,391
People watch my films today

476
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:40,511
and no one says
that it's negative or hardcore.

477
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,671
They see them as something that existed
long enough to become part of a whole.

478
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:52,073
The ironic aspect of my relationship
with the gay establishment,

479
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,355
is that, even in the mid-1980s,

480
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,919
my friends and I were thinking
that they were becoming horribly bourgeois

481
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,719
as well as aesthetically and
politically uninteresting,

482
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,393
that’s why we turned to punk.

483
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,912
In the United States and Canada,
in the 1980s,

484
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:14,877
punk was a political movement
incredibly exciting left.

485
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,352
How do you hold your chopsticks?
You should do it like this.

486
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,679
I prefer to hold them like this,
it's more comfortable.

487
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,955
You're not supposed to hold them that way...

488
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,874
If it's better for me, it has no
importance. I hold them however I want.

489
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,552
But you can't eat that way.

490
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,115
Magic!

491
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,876
The idea that the gay movement has
leftist leanings

492
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,191
is totally outdated.

493
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,358
It was recovered by
a pro-marriage movement

494
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,440
and military acceptance,

495
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:02,515
two of the institutions
the most conservative in the United States.

496
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:08,269
Movement has been reduced
to this type of fight.

497
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,633
He was a gay liberal
and I think he still is.

498
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,357
But, at the same time, he made fun
values of all these gays

499
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,239
who wanted to be like everyone else,

500
00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:21,310
even though he didn't want it
and me neither.

501
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,239
We both respect
the fact that he was funny

502
00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:29,358
to be a gay outlaw,
and not middle class.

503
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,199
People have the right to be
middle class, and gays too,

504
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,270
people have the right
to be everything they want,

505
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,716
but he highlighted the fact that he was
much more fun being an outlaw.

506
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,554
You know, in primitive cultures,

507
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,356
gays were often considered

508
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,560
like shamans,
priests or healers,

509
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,429
and I think it's
a much more enviable position.

510
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,597
I love this part, it's awesome.

511
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,559
Believe that we can heal
homosexuals and lesbians

512
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,918
exposed them to the very last
medical technology.

513
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,956
- It will help you get better.
- Nothing will help me.

514
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,275
Ready?

515
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:40,193
He is a true defender
of queer identity

516
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,913
as she wants to be
and as it could become

517
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:54,193
rather than what it should be
or by imitating a heterosexual parody.

518
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:00,197
I love the contradictions between
his politics, his real life and his work.

519
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,756
He is married,

520
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,909
but he has nothing
from a pro-gay marriage activist

521
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,594
and he has real problems
with the institution of marriage.

522
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,231
Many would call it hypocrisy,
and maybe it is,

523
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,118
but I see this
like a great honesty in the face of life.

524
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,439
He has a pretty normal life.
even boring.

525
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,835
He makes fun of Toronto by calling it Boronto.

526
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,715
If I were to live in Canada,
which will never happen,

527
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,751
but if I had to emigrate there,
what I don't want,

528
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,837
I would spend all my time
with Lisa LaBruce.

529
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,757
Here we are in Queens Park
where we look for prostitutes,

530
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,910
but you know, Lisa,
I haven't seen a single one.

531
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,316
Me neither, I mostly saw squirrels.

532
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,799
Do you think squirrels
gossip among themselves?

533
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,912
Maybe. I heard about
of inter-species sexual relations.

534
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,953
What I like about Bruce,

535
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,756
is that sometimes there is a break

536
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,836
between what he says and what he does

537
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,591
but this behavior
is part of human nature.

538
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,389
And I believe that one of the goals of art

539
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,837
is knowing how to negotiate this break.

540
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,359
Shut up now!

541
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,399
So how old was I when you found me?

542
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,960
at the bottom of the stairs, in a pool of blood?

543
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,275
Two years.

544
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,472
The first time you were lying down
in a pool of blood

545
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,836
and you were just a little bundle of joy.

546
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,358
It was the same year
that I swallowed the Christmas ball?

547
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,235
Probably.

548
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,279
In short, a bloody year.

549
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,439
When I came out,
at the end of the 1980s,

550
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,438
AIDS was a major problem in New York.

551
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,190
I was very young, just a teenager,

552
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,159
and when I discovered the gay scene,

553
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,196
I couldn't believe all this apathy.

554
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,559
At the time, there was an interesting connection

555
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,030
between the Toronto punk scene,
the J.D.s scene,

556
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,398
and all the fanzines
that we were creating in the East Village.

557
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,554
Gays continued to come out,
drink, have fun, make love

558
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:39,272
while, politically and medically,
nothing was being done about this crisis.

559
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,399
Bruce, do you have AIDS?

560
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,872
Yes, I have a publicist,

561
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,958
a press agent and a secretary.

562
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:50,917
AZT was very controversial,

563
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,391
because people thought
that we just died faster.

564
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:57,675
So I joined Act Up.

565
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,075
We were going to the street
to provoke people.

566
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,594
We interviewed them
very aggressively,

567
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,799
or we went to Atlantic City
dressed as Drag Queens.

568
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,239
We were running in the streets
and passers-by threw stones at us.

569
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:17,759
Transsexuality had not yet
been assimilated by the general public

570
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,557
so it was very provocative.

571
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,638
In the gay prides
in which we participated,

572
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:27,032
we yelled at gays for trying
to wake them from their torpor.

573
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,874
My coming out was also a kind of

574
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:38,035
of rebellion against bourgeois gays.

575
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,477
I met Bruce LaBruce
in the early 1990s,

576
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,839
while he was making appearances
on a cable channel

577
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,749
in a program entitled
"Glennda and Friends".

578
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,914
Bruce played Judy LaBruce,

579
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,468
a character inspired by Judy Garland.

580
00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:59,190
When I asked Bruce
to transform into Drag,

581
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,237
it was supposed to be, not Jane Fonda,

582
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,880
but one of the Fonda sisters.

583
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,350
At the end of the evening, Bruce removed
her wig, and I said to her:

584
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,790
"Oh my God, you look like
two drops of water to Judy Garland."

585
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:20,154
That's when I had the idea
to transform Bruce into Judy Garland,

586
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,636
which was very ironic, given that
he is a radical and punk filmmaker,

587
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,515
and that Judy Garland was
the cheesiest reference possible.

588
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,389
Nobody wants to admit
that he loves Judy Garland,

589
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,199
or everyone who loved him is dead.

590
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,034
Through this character, they attacked

591
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,759
to many sacred cows
in the gay community.

592
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,270
In each of the episodes we filmed,

593
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,669
we were inventing a new cultural movement.

594
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:51,759
The first was "post-queer",
because at that time,

595
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,593
in the early 1990s,
everyone used the word "Queer"

596
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,353
which had become the radical term for...

597
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,995
Because "gay" was considered
as outdated.

598
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,399
Bruce and I were already fed up with "Queer",
even though we were radicals.

599
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,115
We need to rediscover our gay roots.

600
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,271
So. Let's go west.

601
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,631
They decided that they were going to
revive the old gay lifestyle:

602
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,912
promiscuity, piano bars and poppers.

603
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,958
Let's find some poppers. Anyone have any poppers?

604
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,116
Do you sell poppers?
Do you have any poppers?

605
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,798
Poppers? No?
Poppers.

606
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,873
Hi, do you sell poppers?

607
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:31,275
Do you have any poppers?

608
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,353
Judy and I are trying to find
a place that sells poppers.

609
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,749
- Do you know where to find some?
- At the intersection of 8th and 21st.

610
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,239
I think we should
try the poppers, right?

611
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:46,878
- Yes, let's go.
- All right.

612
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,389
Post-Queen Civil Disobedience
They're in my bag.

613
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,637
I know you've never tried it, so...

614
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,718
I will teach you.

615
00:42:57,240 --> 00:43:00,118
Quickly unscrew the cap,
hold the bottle in your left hand

616
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,319
and place your finger against your nostril.

617
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,435
It stinks!

618
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,279
It smells like old sock!

619
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,955
Finger against your nostril, you sniff,
then you snort on the other side.

620
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,792
You can't do it?
Okay, let Judy show you.

621
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,151
Oh, it stinks...

622
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,559
At that time,
it seemed very innovative,

623
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,159
Because we weren't
a group of people already known,

624
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,037
we weren't gay
graduated from the big schools...

625
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,597
- Oh! What is this?
- Closing time.

626
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,715
The end of this transsexual movement
between Bruce and I, it was…

627
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,197
We decided to heal from our homosexuality...

628
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,669
It was in 1995.

629
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,430
Sometimes you wish you weren't...
what we are?

630
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,435
No!

631
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,354
We launched a movement called
Gay XXX movement, like Triple X Gays,

632
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,670
and we created T-shirts with the name.

633
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,112
I would love to spend some time
with ordinary people, for a change.

634
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,032
You wouldn't like my, darling.
Ordinary people... They are boring!

635
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,479
They went to a meeting
of people who believed

636
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,710
that we could heal
gays about their illness

637
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,759
and they asked
to be healed immediately.

638
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,110
Now, right away.
Out!

639
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:33,438
They were directors
underground guerrillas, these two.

640
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,674
They didn't follow any rules,
had no decency.

641
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,549
Come on... Come on, Holger... Fuck me...

642
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,432
Fuck me for the revolution… Come on!

643
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,915
I can't stand the tyranny of the bed anymore!

644
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,833
It's counter-revolutionary.

645
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,438
The bedroom is
the last bastion of the bourgeoisie.

646
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,599
Sexuality is a force of nature

647
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,758
which cannot be contained
by a mattress or sheet. Standing!

648
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,635
People have always
called "the enfant terrible",

649
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,430
and now he’s the “aging enfant terrible.”

650
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,198
One of the things that disgusts me,

651
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,559
it's this idea that growing old

652
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,994
would make us more mature,

653
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,518
more moderate,

654
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,516
and also a little more homely, I suppose.

655
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,228
Come on, Holger, fuck me
against the wall, motherfucker!

656
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,875
Come on! Stand up and fuck me!

657
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,351
A dandy, in my opinion,

658
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,395
defines himself as someone
having a grudge against modernity.

659
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,551
And therefore, rather than accepting
mainstream trends

660
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,713
and the tribulations of democracy,

661
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,351
he decides to aestheticize everything

662
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:59,599
and reject everything that
is not part of this aesthetic.

663
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,798
At the same time, he parodies
its own aesthetic, then...

664
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,959
That's what Bruce does.
I don't think he accepts anything

665
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,436
the way things
are currently,

666
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,353
in the contemporary world.

667
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,196
He has a grudge against democracy
and life today.

668
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,313
He has a grudge against
postmodern sensibility

669
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,957
and, to express this disagreement,
he became hypersensitive.

670
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,959
He says, in short: "You want to be
so frank and politically correct,

671
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,988
well, I am the very image
of superficiality. And knock:!”

672
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,512
We could be interested in geopolitics,

673
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,591
to American imperialism

674
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,556
and various wars
that are raging across the world...

675
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,749
But we would only do
pay attention to symptoms

676
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,793
and not the cause of global diseases.

677
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,319
Our first priority must be

678
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,710
to free the world
of sexual repression.

679
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,598
In other words, I don't care
of what is happening in Tibet,

680
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,557
in Chechnya or Afghanistan.

681
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,759
All I care about is my orgasm!

682
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,758
Isn't that a bit selfish?

683
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,319
I believe he has some basis
very intellectual,

684
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,790
well informed and studied.

685
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,950
As a Canadian and a social democrat,

686
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,316
he was encouraged by a government
who accepts

687
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:41,839
the development of political ideas
of all kinds.

688
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,396
The French would say of him
that he is a "right-wing anarchist",

689
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,554
but there is no English equivalent.

690
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,759
Literally, it's not true.
Bruce is not right-wing,

691
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,239
that's not what I mean.

692
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,918
A possible translation would be "liberal",
but that's not really it either.

693
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:03,959
Here is the Parliament where the MFPs sit,

694
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,837
Members of the Provincial Parliament.

695
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,792
They call it the Palace Rose,

696
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,031
because as you can
notice, the bricks are pink.

697
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:16,516
The solicitor general is called
Floyd something,

698
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,109
and we call it Pink Floyd!

699
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,999
- What is he asking for?
- He is the solicitor general,

700
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,073
It is he who appeals to all the young people
prostitute for members of Parliament.

701
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,557
He's an anarchist,
he will never accept reforms,

702
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,878
he will never accept any reform
politically correct gay,

703
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,676
he will not accept
identity politics,

704
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,752
and he will seek to return them
and making chaos out of it all.

705
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,238
I have always been inspired
spoke about Jean Genet's strategy...

706
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,960
His way of engaging in
political and cultural life.

707
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,634
He has a passion for things
which he considers revolutionary,

708
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,234
then he supports them
and fights for these things.

709
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:14,993
But as soon as they become institutionalized

710
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,593
or becomes corrupt,

711
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,470
he's not just going to abandon them,
but also fight against them.

712
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,476
He is a revolutionary,
a radical, a bomb thrower.

713
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,832
He fights against the system,
he hates all these assholes,

714
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,838
he fights, he spits on them,

715
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,195
he pins them to the ground
and kicks them...

716
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,436
I would say about him
that it is difficult to pin down.

717
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:43,151
I would say that Bruce
invented a unique character.

718
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,910
My name is Antonio Ramirez.
I am Brucito's husband.

719
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,750
Brucito. Bruce LaBruce.

720
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:51,549
And where are you from?

721
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,990
I come from Cuba. Bauta, La Habana, Cuba…

722
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,031
I haven't been there for 12 years

723
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,959
and I want to go see my family there

724
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,598
Let's talk about "Otto".

725
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,917
My Cuban husband,
who is a priest of Santeria,

726
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:23,756
left Cuba at the age of 32.

727
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:29,156
He always makes fun
of my revolutionary politics.

728
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,159
He calls me Brucito,
Brucito Subversivo, laughing,

729
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:42,679
because he grew up in a country
ravaged on the one hand by imperialism,

730
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:48,676
then by the failure of communism which
pushed the people into poverty,

731
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,399
pushing him to suicide
and flee the country by boat

732
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,632
to sometimes end up drowned,
this whole epic struggle against communism.

733
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,559
It reminds me that I grew up
on a remote farm in Canada

734
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,111
and that I had a privileged life,

735
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,875
without social wars, terror
politics and acts of torture.

736
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,319
I consider my work to be political

737
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,839
but it is true that I do not have
never experienced real combat,

738
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,799
or as gay.

739
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,076
In general, gays struggle with AIDS.

740
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,559
- Hello?
-Hey, Googie.

741
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,838
I was wondering: do you think I will be
the next celebrity to die of AIDS?

742
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,992
I'm lying there, thinking about them...

743
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,758
Rock Hudson, Liberace, Keith Haring,

744
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,116
Robert Reed, John Sex,

745
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,357
Robert Mapplethorpe, Anthony Perkins,

746
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:49,949
Roy Cohn, Rudolph Nureyev,

747
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:52,874
Freddie Mercury, Andy Warhol.

748
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,518
Warhol did not die of AIDS.
It was the gallbladder.

749
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,199
Oh, don't be so naive.

750
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,231
It was a political nightmare.

751
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,192
Governments were not satisfied

752
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,514
to deny homosexuals their rights,

753
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:13,793
but they also refused aid
to pharmaceutical companies

754
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,838
in order to find a medicine.

755
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:22,508
Throughout his presidency, Ronald Reagan
never said the word AIDS,

756
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,553
which led to
a kind of genocide.

757
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,795
Action!

758
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,878
And now raise your hand from the grave...

759
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,035
Perfect!

760
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,955
Raise your hand to protest

761
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,676
against all injustices
committed against your own.

762
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,638
Raise your hand in solidarity
with those who are alone and weak,

763
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:56,757
the rejects, the misfits, the cowards,

764
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,589
and the plague-ridden fags,

765
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:02,912
who were buried and forgotten

766
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,996
by the fascist hetero majority,

767
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,270
merciless and heartless.

768
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,115
It's good?

769
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,513
What I like about Bruce,
is that he is a bit of a Marxist.

770
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,434
He is from the left,
he doesn't just satirize it.

771
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,397
I too am left-wing.

772
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,433
And I like to think that a film like "Otto"
is a kind of criticism

773
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,756
of gay consumerist culture,
presenting them as zombies.

774
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,234
This film has a message

775
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,512
very nuanced left.

776
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:47,473
In an industrialized society

777
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,598
who has reached a point of abundance

778
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,269
characterized by production
non-productive things,

779
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:01,198
citizens are inflicted
some repression

780
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,752
beyond that necessary
to any cultural progression.

781
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,719
Redundant and unnecessary work,

782
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,833
on which advanced capitalism rests,

783
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,996
is characterized by an effect
deadly or hypnotizing,

784
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,470
a zombie state

785
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:25,280
without any form of distraction
personal desires and sexual needs.

786
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,590
A person who functions normally
in a sick society

787
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:32,957
is sick herself.

788
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:35,472
Everyone hates her.

789
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,838
I find that Medea
is an exceptional character.

790
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,558
I find her so glamorous,

791
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,399
she is political, beautiful, intelligent,

792
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,516
she's a feminist, a lesbian...

793
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,238
All these things that we don't see
never shown on screen.

794
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,958
She is anti-capitalist

795
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,193
and the only thing people say about her,

796
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,437
particularly in the United States and Canada,

797
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,515
is that she is a director
pretentious or boring

798
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,592
but they never care
to what she says.

799
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,910
She's like a cartoon version of...

800
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:15,593
like a kind of...

801
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:20,511
Edward Gorey or Charles Adams,
a bit like I feel now,

802
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,274
as a director,

803
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,234
and Otto represents the way
which I felt, as a child or adolescent,

804
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,119
when I was trying to deal with my homosexuality,

805
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,515
my anxieties,
my fear of homophobic violence,

806
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,912
and my fear of being judged morally,

807
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:39,679
all this.

808
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,557
When we say we are queer,
we are immediately pigeonholed.

809
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,635
We lose our individuality and we become
a horrible person in the eyes of others,

810
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,876
we really become it.

811
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,312
They say they're normal,
but they are not.

812
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,111
They are what they are not

813
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,957
and they are completely
ordinary, otherwise.

814
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,836
Otto is very romantic.

815
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,398
There is a kind of sadness
in the character that I like.

816
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,675
If it had been to play another role,

817
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,594
I wouldn't have done it.

818
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,592
That's also why Bruce chose me.

819
00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:26,915
In a way,
I understand the character,

820
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,959
and that's exactly what Bruce is talking about,

821
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,793
of this young generation
of which I am a part.

822
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,393
What do you do for a living?

823
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:36,155
The life?

824
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:38,388
Non-Life.

825
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,552
I am unemployed.

826
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:42,794
And where do you live?

827
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,035
Non-vis…

828
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:46,948
I am homeless.

829
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:48,795
Where do you sleep?

830
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,399
I don't sleep. Zombies don't sleep.

831
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:58,990
I believe that young people identify
to a character who feels alienated...

832
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,875
alone... empty... dead within.

833
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:05,479
They cut themselves off emotionally
of the world around them

834
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,359
because they are very sensitive
and the world is going crazy,

835
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,318
with the destruction of the environment,

836
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,357
control of companies by the media,

837
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:22,960
political corruption
and the economic crisis.

838
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,829
It's too much and they become autistic.

839
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,996
They withdraw completely into themselves.

840
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,559
There is too much information around us,

841
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,916
and I think we feel lost.

842
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,832
We wonder where we're going

843
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:43,836
because it seems to us
that the media covers everything

844
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,438
and we no longer know where to look.

845
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,479
Otto is a film for cinephiles.

846
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,278
Medea is a tribute to Maya Deren:

847
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,639
Medea Yarn is the anagram of Maya Deren.

848
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,553
But the three films that influenced me,

849
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,549
in terms of atmosphere and tone, were:

850
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,518
“Carnival of Souls” by Herk Harvey,

851
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,319
“Night Tide” by Curtis Harrington

852
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,630
"and "Martin" by George Romero.

853
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,358
These are three horror films
on a low budget

854
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:23,389
on a monstrous character,

855
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,797
which we do not know if it really is

856
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,189
or if this Romero the people who perceive

857
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,359
this stranger as monstrous.

858
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:37,429
I try to demystify
the myth of the monster.

859
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:43,273
I wanted to treat the zombie the same way

860
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,870
and make him a romantic figure.

861
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,351
One of the trademarks of my films,

862
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,398
It's raw sexuality,

863
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:17,197
extreme fetishism, mixed with
a kind of tenderness or romanticism.

864
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:19,509
Poor Anthony.

865
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,915
Why does the fag always have to
go crazy or die at the end of the movie?

866
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,199
What's interesting
in Bruce's work,

867
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,953
it's only after seeing skinheads
licking toilet bowls

868
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,917
or someone do
penetrate through a stump,

869
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,434
or even a gang bang,

870
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,190
love always triumphs.

871
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,953
I think it's great.

872
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,674
Isn't that the most beautiful "Fuck you"?

873
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,759
Bruce's films are
like love stories.

874
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,236
I mean, these are
real love stories.

875
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,910
But love in a world
contemporary where everything is messed up.

876
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:56,276
It's not like everything's perfect
and everyone was smiling.

877
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:19,879
'A song of love!'

878
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,353
I saw it again recently on YouTube.

879
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:30,639
I hadn't seen him again
for twenty or thirty years

880
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,749
and I realized

881
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,515
that's what I was trying to do

882
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,680
for all these years.

883
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,073
Do you remember my presentation of
science about tree leaves?

884
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,555
You know what? I still have it.

885
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,596
- Oh! I got a very bad grade.
- But no, you got a B.

886
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,280
- No.
- But yes, I found him the other day.

887
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,360
The reason you got B,

888
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:07,237
that's what you said you would deal with
trees and you talked about leaves.

889
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:14,275
You made it!

890
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,073
For me, "Raspberry Reich" was really innovative.

891
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,074
The aesthetic seemed different to me,

892
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,278
there are too many things, too much of everything:

893
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,632
music, text, dialogue,
editing, everything was new.

894
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,638
There will be no sexual revolution
without a homosexual revolution!

895
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:35,792
With "Otto", everything happened so quickly

896
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:40,391
because it was his new film,
and that he had totally changed.

897
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:43,119
It’s such a different movie!

898
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:46,869
I believe "Otto" stood for
a whole new era for Bruce.

899
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:51,717
Otto was my biggest spender.

900
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:57,999
It cost about half a million dollars,

901
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,356
which really isn't that much.

902
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,709
The filming took much longer
than any other of my shoots

903
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,559
and everything was just more elaborate,
with a larger team.

904
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,596
I don't know if it's
truly an evolution,

905
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,198
because I believe that
low budget filming

906
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,713
are more interesting than the big ones.

907
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,434
And then I'm not going to go to Hollywood,
nothing like that.

908
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,671
At the same time, I would like to realize

909
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:32,639
bigger budget films,

910
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:39,193
but I don't want to see it as
a goal to achieve or an evolution.

911
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:45,515
I just see it as something to accomplish.

912
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,799
It surprises me that he hasn't become
more “mainstream” over time.

913
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:52,630
Really, I'm surprised
that it is not more "general public".

914
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,518
I mean, John Waters is on Broadway
with musicals;

915
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:03,238
and Gus Van Sant gets lots of
nominations for its projects,

916
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,273
everything he touches turns to gold.

917
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,439
Sean Penn reinvented himself thanks to Van Sant.

918
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:14,591
But why is Van Sant not
up there? What about Sean Penn?

919
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:22,676
Bruce should be there too.
Maybe he's shy.

920
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,311
It sounds like weird music
of an ice cream seller.

921
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,072
It's ice cream seller music

922
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,199
but no one wanted me to use it,
under the pretext that it was inappropriate.

923
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:33,794
But I held on.

924
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,790
And that's how it is
that I was nominated for an Oscar.

925
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,672
I would say there is some sort of invisible line

926
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:43,272
to enter
a more legitimate film industry,

927
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,868
access larger budgets.

928
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:55,750
Because we are stigmatized as soon as
we made pornography.

929
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,756
You exceed a certain limit, in particular
if you appear there yourself

930
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:04,516
and, you know, I fucked,
and gave blowjobs on the big screen.

931
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,835
And, as soon as you have done
this kind of thing,

932
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,519
you are on the other side of the line.
I call it the anus line.

933
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,479
When you participated in this type of film,
people look at you differently.

934
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,915
We judge you morally,

935
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,711
people think of you
in very limited terms,

936
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:29,759
they have an idea of you
by imagining that you are amoral,

937
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,877
that you are a lousy person,

938
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,759
and disgusting.

939
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:37,794
You have to deal with it.

940
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,514
I don't care what people
think of me morally,

941
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,876
but when it stops me
to find funding,

942
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,475
It's painful and I have to fight.

943
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:53,072
I can imagine “Otto” very well.

944
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,188
without any pornography.

945
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,510
I think it's because

946
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,429
the production company
Jürgen Brüning makes pornography,

947
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:05,111
so I guess it had to be added.

948
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,114
When you want to show deeds
explicit sex in a film,

949
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,268
you are forced to work
with people whose job it is,

950
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,717
because it is very difficult
to ask this of the actors,

951
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:23,710
especially to men, who are
much shyer than women.

952
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,676
And Bruce didn't deny the reputation
of a Patrice Chéreau,

953
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,036
who can ask
explicit things to its actors.

954
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:40,798
So we worked with
porn actors that I already knew,

955
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,994
but then it is very easy to
being labeled a “porn director”.

956
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,873
Before the shoot, I said to myself
that I could do it,

957
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,159
because I had already taken nude photos.

958
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,119
And, as I felt comfortable with Bruce,

959
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,953
I told myself that this
wouldn't pose a problem for me.

960
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,437
At first I was nervous
because it was something

961
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:04,030
that I had never done before,
which I had no experience with.

962
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:05,315
Action!

963
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,798
Five minutes before the first sex scene,

964
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:21,832
I felt like I wouldn’t make it.

965
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:25,993
I talked about it with my partner, Daniel.
He was very kind and said to me:

966
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:27,593
“Susanne, it’s very easy,”

967
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,713
let me know if anything
don't like it, and I'll do the same.

968
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,959
And afterward, everything went very well,
and I thought it was easy.

969
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:39,755
I was only nineteen and I said to myself

970
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,117
that maybe I didn't want
to show myself this way...

971
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:45,711
So I told Bruce about it.

972
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,550
I told him I didn't want to do it anymore.

973
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,909
And then we filmed and Bruce asked

974
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:55,034
to anyone who was not needed
to leave the stage,

975
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,595
but that was not important.

976
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,713
If people wanted or
had to stay, let them stay,

977
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,354
because I wanted to see this
like a "normal" scene,

978
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,635
at least, a scene like any other.

979
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:10,190
I think he knew

980
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,189
that I wouldn't do it.

981
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,392
I didn't expect
to find it exciting,

982
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,830
but it was, I must say.

983
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,275
In a way, it was sexy.

984
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,560
- How do you become a porn star?
- We suck.

985
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:35,711
When I made "Raspberry Reich",

986
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:39,032
it was sometimes a shock
for my colleagues,

987
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:43,755
because I would have scenes
explicit sex.

988
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,954
My agent was very angry
and I was fired.

989
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:51,314
It went very far.

990
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,519
But it also launched
an interesting discussion

991
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,875
on sex and cinema

992
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,192
and how serious a thing it is.

993
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:14,437
People always ask me:
Why continue to make porn?

994
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,589
My ready answer is
that it's a bad habit

995
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,113
which I can no longer get rid of.

996
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:24,314
I'm on set
of a real Hollywood porn,

997
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,194
at the invitation of my friend Roger V. Deem,

998
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,554
to live this experience live.

999
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:37,959
My motivation for doing porn
was political, and I maintain it.

1000
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:42,112
I always quote Jean-Luc Godard:
Ass is politics.

1001
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:49,790
There aren't enough people
who make political porn,

1002
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,070
films where it's not just about the act,

1003
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,191
but also of all that
which relates to it: industry,

1004
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:05,198
contacts, politics
and sexual representation,

1005
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,873
the difference between what constitutes porn

1006
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,678
and mainstream sexual representation.

1007
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:20,990
I hope that my presence on the set

1008
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,551
will not disturb the delicate balance

1009
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,114
which is part of...
Cut!

1010
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,033
People who reject it by labeling it

1011
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:32,919
like a gay porn director

1012
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:35,593
did not understand anything about his work.

1013
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:50,353
I would say that the sex scenes
are too short

1014
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:53,956
to sexually stimulate viewers.

1015
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,113
But a lot of scenes are also really hot

1016
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,834
and we get excited while watching his films.

1017
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:04,879
But, regarding the rhythm,
they don't work like porn.

1018
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,431
I don't consider his films to be porn,

1019
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:13,559
because porn movies
exist for the sole purpose

1020
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,518
to excite the viewer
who will then masturbate.

1021
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,838
The porn ends there.
It's a kind of convenience.

1022
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,795
I would say there is a good story,

1023
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,430
always against a backdrop of politics,

1024
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:29,752
and that it has to do with sex.

1025
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,798
You know, my films have always
been sexually explicit,

1026
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:38,756
but for some reason I don't know
they were shown

1027
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,319
in contexts outside the porn circuit

1028
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:49,077
like festivals
or international art galleries,

1029
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:53,791
institutions, and what not.

1030
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,519
They are not distributed
by porn distributors

1031
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,795
but by independents.

1032
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:03,674
In a way, by adapting porn,

1033
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,110
to make artistic works of it,

1034
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:09,516
Bruce was the first to include sex

1035
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,830
in real stories.

1036
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,593
Even before “Short Bus”
by John Cameron Mitchell.

1037
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,792
By reading Bruce's scripts,
I said to myself every time:

1038
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:21,994
Why not?

1039
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:26,839
The only question of “Why?” makes me very angry

1040
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,956
and makes me say: What's the problem?

1041
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:31,952
Why be so proud

1042
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,113
not to include sex in a film?

1043
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:38,159
His art uses pornography,

1044
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:40,639
and it is very different, even a good thing,

1045
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:42,915
because the porn industry
is in a very bad situation.

1046
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,479
Larry Flynt asked Obama for help
because he needed money,

1047
01:11:47,480 --> 01:11:48,639
like everyone else.

1048
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,200
And the amateur porn found on the Net

1049
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,959
is much sexier than the movies
which cost an eyelid.

1050
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,714
Most important to me,
and that's what characterizes Bruce,

1051
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,314
these are the characters
women and their sexuality.

1052
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:06,029
I realized that in a lot of films,
even those of Catherine Breillat,

1053
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:07,753
women have sex

1054
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,115
but only after an accident,

1055
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,749
or what happened to them
something bad:

1056
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,435
the loss of a child

1057
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:19,308
or else loneliness,

1058
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,951
as if a woman had to
be sad for having sexuality.

1059
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,390
It's so misogynistic,

1060
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,874
but that’s not the case for Bruce.
He's great with the sex scenes.

1061
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,709
When I was your age,
Not that I'm not your age anymore...

1062
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,315
I made two or three films a year.

1063
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:44,035
At that time, I was
more often naked than dressed.

1064
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:47,993
I was a face, then.

1065
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:50,399
Or at least an ass.

1066
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,719
Porn was different, and
we appreciated an unusual face,

1067
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,393
a special body, not like today.

1068
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:02,599
All these bodies and faces
indistinct and interchangeable,

1069
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:06,593
these pectorals, these biceps, and these
oversized tails today!

1070
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,190
Bruce's films have always
had this little amateur side,

1071
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:10,679
like: “Where did you find this guy?

1072
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:12,716
It's not like those traditional porn actors

1073
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,350
who dance naked in your city

1074
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:17,635
and play escort boys.

1075
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:19,433
Or maybe they are,

1076
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:24,159
but we tell ourselves that they would not please anyone,

1077
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:25,434
that he would even scare her.

1078
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,751
It's even shocking
to know that they are gay,

1079
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:30,671
we wouldn't guess it.

1080
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,315
Bruce's thing is, "Faggots suck,

1081
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:38,315
fags get sodomized,
and that's what I'm going to show you.

1082
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:41,799
I'm not going to show you a gay couple

1083
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:45,349
giving each other cute little kisses
“a la Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks.”

1084
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,913
No. With two men there will be
two erect penises.

1085
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,831
He is interested in a guy

1086
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,470
hypermasculine gay imagery

1087
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,350
and underlines everything
that it is homosexual.

1088
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,434
I can't find his works
definitely exciting

1089
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:06,995
from a sexual point of view,
but still interesting.

1090
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:13,392
I like the way he uses himself
of this sexual discomfort.

1091
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,711
What do you think about the fact that
Are you being called a pornographer?

1092
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,118
A French critic spoke of "pornology",

1093
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:24,873
because he saw
a study of pornography.

1094
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,715
After throwing up properly, I told him:

1095
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:29,392
No, I do pornography,

1096
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:34,076
because I want to have a monopoly
pornographic to make money.

1097
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:38,348
I have also been called a director
"cult with a sense of commerce."

1098
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:44,079
He specialized in the fact
to make a porn version

1099
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:48,756
and a soft version on the same budget.

1100
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:55,635
A reviewer from Flash International
called me "the pornographic Brecht",

1101
01:14:56,400 --> 01:14:57,958
which I liked.

1102
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:03,073
He said I was using
certain distancing techniques,

1103
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,028
especially with the sex scenes,

1104
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:13,828
maybe because
I was a reluctant pornographer.

1105
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:16,719
I always seek to make the viewer

1106
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:20,599
aware of what he is looking at
and how he perceives it.

1107
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,318
I never had the impression

1108
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:26,354
that Bruce was a director
or a porn photographer.

1109
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:28,589
I don't really know why.

1110
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:31,391
I know a few of them,

1111
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,755
but Bruce didn't really...

1112
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,399
that in him.

1113
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,316
At one point, I started
my Super 8 camera hidden in a closet.

1114
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,875
And I filmed our first time.

1115
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:53,834
I had the impression

1116
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:56,918
that the whole world was watching me

1117
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,635
making fun of me.

1118
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:47,517
Tonight I painted the body
by François Sagat.

1119
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:49,750
It was very experimental,

1120
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:54,153
as a sort of test of what we
going to do for the movie "L.A. Zombie".

1121
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,758
I used iridescent colors
like blue and red.

1122
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:01,756
I wanted a superhero zombie,

1123
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:04,513
a supernatural character.

1124
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:06,557
That's what Bruce told me
want, in any case.

1125
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:12,438
It is therefore a set of several ideas,

1126
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:14,359
so it's very experimental.

1127
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:17,950
I was afraid it would look like
mud, but in the end, it's okay.

1128
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:20,953
Some people can't take it anymore
zombies, while for others,

1129
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:24,072
it's a genre that will never disappear.

1130
01:17:24,480 --> 01:17:26,755
A kid just suggested

1131
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:31,199
a zombie movie
which would have cost around $700,

1132
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,630
and he sold it to a major.

1133
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,959
These films always feature

1134
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:43,395
a consumerist and capitalist allegory,

1135
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:47,509
and they are popular, too,

1136
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:51,239
because of global warming
and apocalyptic ideas.

1137
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:52,912
They have a viral aspect,

1138
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:57,790
it's a good allegory for the idea of mutation,

1139
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,549
ideology, swine flu, all that...

1140
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:04,757
This is what I'm looking for
to do with this project,

1141
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:09,396
which is a porn and gore zombie movie,

1142
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:13,513
so I look for the limits.

1143
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:18,270
But the very small budget in fact
almost an arthouse film.

1144
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:24,950
If it had cost five million,
it would be a product.

1145
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,990
What I liked best was when
the homeless man passed out in a pool of blood.

1146
01:18:31,080 --> 01:18:33,355
He went to clean himself up, I think.

1147
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:35,670
Well, maybe he didn't clean himself
but they got him out anyway.

1148
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:40,399
Yes, it was good,
everyone has blood on them,

1149
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,119
or maybe she got over it,
I don't know what happened to this woman.

1150
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,076
Blood, gays, zombies...

1151
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:48,755
The Belvedere!

1152
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:54,555
I really like little music

1153
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:58,758
and the sweet, cloying smell of syrup
which they used for the fake blood,

1154
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,839
as well as the way in which
all this contrasts with the visual

1155
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,354
straight out of a gross horror movie.

1156
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:09,399
People come there, look,

1157
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:12,437
and suddenly see a man's penis
and all this blood,

1158
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:14,192
and it makes them nervous.

1159
01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:16,118
Really very nervous.

1160
01:19:16,440 --> 01:19:20,115
They see all this and say to themselves:
I'm so liberated!

1161
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:23,999
I am freed
“and he has a penis in the room.”

1162
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,833
I look at a penis without freaking out.

1163
01:19:28,400 --> 01:19:30,675
Yes, they are very aware of it
and say to themselves:

1164
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:32,677
I won't freak out, I won't freak out!

1165
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:35,674
This is not too much,
“I can handle it.”

1166
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:40,631
It's not: "Hey! Look"
what would it look like,

1167
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:43,514
if we all smeared ourselves with blood",

1168
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:48,118
but rather: “Imagine the political climate”

1169
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,397
if, instead of accepting violence...

1170
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,149
I mean Violence is accepted

1171
01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:59,317
in American culture, without
no one asks any questions.

1172
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,276
Do people wonder

1173
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:06,319
why would they have the right
to kill each other and not to make love?

1174
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,709
- Exactly.
- It's become very frustrating.

1175
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,519
I believe that September 11
is an excellent example,

1176
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:16,634
because we see images of people
who commit suicide on TV

1177
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,596
jumping out of windows,
and they are repressed.

1178
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,588
Then we see the images of these buildings exploding,

1179
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:26,833
of people dying, and it's not censored.

1180
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:29,993
Again and again and again.

1181
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:34,995
Death is not censored,
but sexuality, yes.

1182
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:37,800
When I saw the photos
by Bruce for this exhibition,

1183
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:40,196
Abu Ghraib is the first thing
that came to my mind.

1184
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:45,235
In these photos, we see
handsome young men

1185
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,918
erect in front of flags.

1186
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:51,748
With what happened at Abu Ghraib,

1187
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:57,830
the American people had to accept
that our red, white and blue soldiers,

1188
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:03,709
our blood that we would defend body and soul,

1189
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,998
were doing terrible things there!

1190
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:08,319
And it is in my opinion

1191
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:12,757
the similarity between the photos
of Bruce and those of Abu Ghraib.

1192
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:18,154
Photos taken at Abu Ghraib,
it was an accident.

1193
01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:23,508
Military personnel documented this
what was happening there and what they saw there.

1194
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,110
You need someone like
Bruce LaBruce to say:

1195
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,358
If the soldiers who represent
our country abroad

1196
01:21:30,440 --> 01:21:33,238
behave this way...

1197
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,676
The outside world forms its opinion of a country
on the behavior of his soldiers.

1198
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,435
It takes an artist like LaBruce to say:

1199
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,679
You must have a critical eye
about what these soldiers are doing

1200
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:48,749
and when we compare this
to our ideology,

1201
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,674
“This is getting really absurd.”

1202
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:53,432
Are you going to take off your pants?

1203
01:21:57,480 --> 01:21:58,435
Yes.

1204
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:00,593
And so, to finish,

1205
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:05,111
I would say that the United States
need to be

1206
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:06,914
Bruce LaBrucisés.

1207
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,439
After "Raspberry Reich",
he was pursued

1208
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:19,790
for using the image of Che Guevara

1209
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,269
and the court fined him

1210
01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:25,273
of the same amount as
the one requested from Smirnoff.

1211
01:22:25,440 --> 01:22:27,874
I think it was $70,000?

1212
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,959
I don't know if it's Bruce
or its producer who had to pay,

1213
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:32,313
but it was an enormous sum.

1214
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:34,868
This trial was interesting
that he put on an equal footing

1215
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:38,834
Smirnoff, a big advertising company,

1216
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,959
having used the image of Che to
a display in the London Underground,

1217
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:44,757
and an underground director,

1218
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:50,437
both attacked for the same reason.

1219
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,593
Bruce is an interesting figure to me,

1220
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,039
when we seek to understand to what extent

1221
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,998
money can become a problem
in this system,

1222
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:04,119
when we stay outside
of the system, like him.

1223
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,111
If he had been an academic,
no one would have put him on trial.

1224
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:08,278
In a general public environment,

1225
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,239
there would be an army of lawyers
to protect him,

1226
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:13,152
what's interesting is
that it does not fit into any category.

1227
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,436
The problem with sex,
it is that in the eyes of the censors,

1228
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:17,239
no matter if it's funny or shocking,

1229
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:18,798
They don't like sex, period.

1230
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:20,791
From the start they didn't like my films.

1231
01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:25,155
My first short films
were constantly

1232
01:23:25,480 --> 01:23:29,837
confiscated at customs
between the United States and Canada.

1233
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,753
When we sent videos by post,

1234
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,039
they were confiscated and destroyed.

1235
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:40,073
When I confided "No Skin Off
My Ass" at a Toronto lab,

1236
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,075
so that they inflate it to 16mm,

1237
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,590
they called the cops, who came,

1238
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:52,196
and who asked me
to destroy part of the negatives

1239
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:58,594
due to violent nudity,
sadomasochism and toe sucking.

1240
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,199
Many of the photos he took
for fashion magazines

1241
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:02,679
have never been published.

1242
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:07,118
He worked for Vogue or Elle

1243
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,111
who hired him for a McQueen shoot,

1244
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,950
but he staged a multiple rape.

1245
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:17,396
So we have this young woman who
is raped by several men.

1246
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,949
They were horrified when they saw the photos.

1247
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:24,836
He did this on the streets of Toronto
with an old mattress lying around.

1248
01:24:25,440 --> 01:24:28,079
But again, Bruce has his
own language and uses it for everything:

1249
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,039
fashion, writing, music…

1250
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:40,070
Bruce LaBruce could
be a registered trademark.

1251
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,675
Obviously, when they saw
the photos, they told him:

1252
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:50,438
But we thought you
would conform to our style...

1253
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:52,670
And he answered: “No.”

1254
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,030
"Pink Flamingos" features four blowjobs

1255
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,799
and this film is shown without
cable cuts in the United States.

1256
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:00,155
I don't know how it could have happened,
and that shocks me myself!

1257
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:02,158
We can never know.

1258
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,675
I had problems
with the Canadian censors,

1259
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:08,389
particularly in Ontario where
They burned one of my films!

1260
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:10,717
They didn't say anything, they just burned it.

1261
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:14,079
It was a long time ago, in
the sixties, but still!

1262
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:16,399
They just sent me a receipt and
when I asked where my movie was,

1263
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,551
they sent me another receipt
saying: "destroyed"...

1264
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:21,956
Maybe it's not so bad.

1265
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:27,831
Bruce and I took big risks
with what we have chosen to show,

1266
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:30,629
but I no longer show the works
of Bruce at art fairs

1267
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:33,434
because these are big events

1268
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:37,668
and they are important
for our business.

1269
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:43,035
It has become almost impossible to show
such photos in an art exhibition

1270
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:49,150
because of the insults we received.

1271
01:25:49,480 --> 01:25:53,189
The 20,000 people present had
all one damn comment, you know?

1272
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:55,038
- Hey, how are you?
- GOOD.

1273
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:56,952
- Can I take a photo of you?
- Yes.

1274
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:02,632
Many of the artists
that I represent today

1275
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:04,837
are artists that
I met thanks to him.

1276
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:06,598
The core of my gallery

1277
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,993
was formed thanks to this meeting
Lucky with Bruce.

1278
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,956
Because he always knows
who will be the new darling

1279
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:16,678
before everyone else.

1280
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,110
I believe he is sincerely
happy when others are successful

1281
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,510
and this kind of attitude is
very rare in this environment.

1282
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,475
People like it when
it doesn't work for others,

1283
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:28,755
but Bruce is sincerely happy

1284
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,597
when his friends are successful,
and I find it adorable.

1285
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:35,758
Thanks to Bruce, I met
Terence Koh, Ryan McGinley,

1286
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:39,116
Dan Colen, and also Dash Snow and Agathe Snow,

1287
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:44,793
all American artists with
who I worked for the long term,

1288
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:47,119
except maybe one or two.

1289
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,756
This again demonstrates

1290
01:26:52,440 --> 01:26:56,194
the impact he had
on different aspects of culture

1291
01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:02,079
because, even if its practices
were not repeated,

1292
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:06,073
they had an influence
huge on the next generation.

1293
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:08,435
Bruce is always one step ahead of me,

1294
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:11,398
when it comes to discovering
new sensitivities.

1295
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:14,119
Last time,
it was in the 1990s,

1296
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:17,192
with very young photographers,

1297
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:22,674
Ryan McGinley or Dash Snow, who is
recently died of an overdose.

1298
01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:28,830
When they first started, Bruce called them his "gang."

1299
01:27:29,480 --> 01:27:32,552
and he went everywhere with them,
took them everywhere with him,

1300
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:36,919
and, in his own way, he fed them

1301
01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:39,635
and helped them develop
their own sensitivity.

1302
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,235
This created
and developed in turn

1303
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:46,108
a new movement in contemporary art

1304
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:52,719
which consisted of documentation
of the life of skaters and taggers.

1305
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:55,314
When a child grows up,
sexual activities

1306
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:58,756
are greatly repressed
by cultural norms.

1307
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:01,470
In adulthood, these norms continue

1308
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,632
to model sexual activity
according to an accepted form.

1309
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:08,316
In our culture, sex
between children, incest,

1310
01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:10,675
prostitution, homosexuality

1311
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,469
and adultery are discouraged.

1312
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:18,799
Sexual arousal in being
human is a complex phenomenon.

1313
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:22,031
And what was incredible
with their lifestyle,

1314
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:25,879
it’s that everyone’s sexual orientation

1315
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:29,156
had absolutely no importance.

1316
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,397
The path to freedom and
the truth cannot begin

1317
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:35,915
that when we are all of the same sex,

1318
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:38,275
of the same kind,

1319
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,195
when we tell the truth.

1320
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,397
Their group consisted of
gays and straights,

1321
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:51,875
but their common sensitivity was
that of the street, of pleasure,

1322
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:58,038
of the skater and never affected by
their individual sexual orientation.

1323
01:28:58,120 --> 01:28:59,678
They simply coexisted.

1324
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:03,833
In my eyes, it was incredibly
modern and contemporary.

1325
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,275
And Bruce was there from the start,

1326
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:10,112
he is perhaps even the only instigator,

1327
01:29:10,200 --> 01:29:12,668
therefore, from this point of view,
he is contemporary.

1328
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:23,955
Ulrike...

1329
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:28,593
Obviously,
this is the grand coalition of 1967

1330
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:31,349
which proved once and for all

1331
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,552
the ultimate failure of Western democracy.